How will the Gamebuino avoid the fate of the Hackvision ?

Hello all

I've been hanging aound here for a couple of weeks. I really like the Gamebuino, I think Rodot & Myndale and whoever else have done fantastic work. The Gamebuino has more going for it than any other Arduino-based gaming system I've seen. Its early days and looking pretty good.

... and yet ...

I do not (at least yet) see why it would avoid the trajectory of other similar projects (high initial excitement, lack of follow-up software, decline). The Hackvision (arduino+tvout) is a couple of years old, had some pretty decent games made for it and is already as dead as a dodo.

My doubts boil down to two things (that partially have been discussed on this forum before):
1) there is no incentive, monetary or otherwise, to actually finish ("ship") a game
2) core libraries and tools require still a lot of work, and may take too much time to evolve, resulting in decline of enthusiasm. I took a look, at least the gfx core needs alot of work.

I propose that:
1) we come up with a joint goal (Gamebuino game disk 1 / Gamebuino magazine etc whatnot) with a deadline and/or incentives to kickstart the game development and promote teamwork. We'll select a few game types (platformer, wolfenstein maze, arcade, pseudo 3d road game) and form teams around those concepts. This could also result in game code that can be reused to produce more games with less effort. Copyright and whatever ridiculously small monetary benefits would be shared among the game disk team members. I'm ready to contribute my alpha sprite routines, parallax scrolling, GIMP C-array export plugin & pseudo 3d road stuff, but not unless there is a goal and a team
2) Rodot "recruits" more people like he did with the SD card loader and Myndale to get the gfx routines optimized and audio tools (tracker on PC) working ASAP so that we can get all these gifted artists making kickass videos on the YT to attract a wider audience

These seem like pretty drastic things to say. I have nothing but highest respect for Rodot in pulling off such an amazing project. This is just the scenario that has been growing in my head as I've started digging into this - but I may well be wrong with everything I say, I may be thinking too far ahead, or repeating things that everyone already knows and has discussed.

Comments ?

wel on number 1 we are working on an rpg with a bunch of the community which is going pretty well

not sure how the sales on hackvision was but we got a decent upcoming install base
already we got people working on allot of arcade games

the idea of a magazine sounds nice, may want to ask the few bloggers here to collaborate on that

not sure u mean on the number 2 all tools are standard and open source, a full custom IDE is possible but not for the monent

Portable console, depends on the screen. Happens to be easy to program, Hackvision is exposed. Come on, this list could go on forever! Guess what, I am going to come up with a list of 256 items that explain why Hackvision<Gamebuino. Not gonna post it (type type type), but I'm sure it could stand up. :lol: :lol: :lol:

At least we have 1.8 million people who know about the gamebuino: Vsause3 posted a video; wait till 1:34: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chfIDmgB0x0&list=PLiyjwVB09t5z0bPvETnsK-nvYMVq0oDBT | Awesome Custom Consoles and MORE!! -- Game LÜT #23

I like that you made the comparison at least. I'd rather look at the possible outcomes than stick my head in sand!

I don't know about the hack vision but like the other guy said gambuino is portable and for me anyway replaced my beloved gb sp (at least for the moment).

The second thing that comes to mind is the simplicity of gambuino it's built basically from a nokia 5110 screen, arduino, and some buttons. Plus the community behind it is what really drew me into it. Similar to arduino- the difference behind it in comparison to Texas Instruments or pic or even altera was the ease to get help when something was in question. Texas instrument has a lot of resources but there support for their mcu's failed in my experience with their community.

Gambuino may not make it but it's so simple to code and fairly cheap so even if it goes underground I wouldn't mind just making games and sharing them with my family. I could stay busy for awhile!

treflip wrote:I like that you made the comparison at least. I'd rather look at the possible outcomes than stick my head in sand!

I don't know about the hack vision but like the other guy said gambuino is portable and for me anyway replaced my beloved gb sp (at least for the moment).

The second thing that comes to mind is the simplicity of gambuino it's built basically from a nokia 5110 screen, arduino, and some buttons. Plus the community behind it is what really drew me into it. Similar to arduino- the difference behind it in comparison to Texas Instruments or pic or even altera was the ease to get help when something was in question. Texas instrument has a lot of resources but there support for their mcu's failed in my experience with their community.

Gambuino may not make it but it's so simple to code and fairly cheap so even if it goes underground I wouldn't mind just making games and sharing them with my family. I could stay busy for awhile!

Teh GB community will likely always be pretty small, but there's nothing wrong with that. If some of us go on to learn more C/C++ and say 'this is where I started' then I think Rodot would agree (Though I hate to speak for him) That it had met or even surpassed his expectations.

As some added notes, I tried comparing the Gamebuino with the GCW Zero and here's a few areas of interest to me.

1st the GCW Zero has all the hardware for gaming but is too close to programming for a smart phone. The margin of difference between the two is very small and the reward for using a smart phone that has a store and advertising already setup is really appealing.

2nd there really is no desire to carry both a smart phone and a gaming device in my pockets at all time. I might as well have a smart phone that I can play my games on and be happier.

3rd and on Gamebuino's side of things it's so close to the hardware and software it fits right in with Arduino's way of doing things. So there's already a huge community and resources to pull from and like DFX2KK mentioned, the user gets experience with coding for the basics of game development without losing site of how the device operates. This is really important for new software programmers and hardware engineers to learn from because they can go from spec sheet to device fast and quickly see results.

So basically an actual handheld gaming device is so close to the common smart phone that the lack of commercial options makes it unappealing and the Gamebuino already has the Arduino's resources and is so close to the hardware that creates it, that it is an intermediate step between learning software development on the computer and programming on a commercial device. Which is highly useful for students and hobbyists.

treflip wrote:As some added notes, I tried comparing the Gamebuino with the GCW Zero and here's a few areas of interest to me.

1st the GCW Zero has all the hardware for gaming but is too close to programming for a smart phone. The margin of difference between the two is very small and the reward for using a smart phone that has a store and advertising already setup is really appealing.

2nd there really is no desire to carry both a smart phone and a gaming device in my pockets at all time. I might as well have a smart phone that I can play my games on and be happier.

3rd and on Gamebuino's side of things it's so close to the hardware and software it fits right in with Arduino's way of doing things. So there's already a huge community and resources to pull from and like DFX2KK mentioned, the user gets experience with coding for the basics of game development without losing site of how the device operates. This is really important for new software programmers and hardware engineers to learn from because they can go from spec sheet to device fast and quickly see results.

So basically an actual handheld gaming device is so close to the common smart phone that the lack of commercial options makes it unappealing and the Gamebuino already has the Arduino's resources and is so close to the hardware that creates it, that it is an intermediate step between learning software development on the computer and programming on a commercial device. Which is highly useful for students and hobbyists.

That's a fairly good summery. You'd make a Gamebuino less to replace your cellphone as a handheld, then to learn to make games on a very limiting (and therefor challenging) environment. That being said. the GB is pretty small, so It likely wouldn't take up that much pocket space.

In my eyes the Gamebuino is also a very cool portable battery driven Arduino with a screen & SD card (for logging measurements) and a speaker. Not necessarily a handheld console alone but also a way for me to take Arduino projects I think up to the next level without having to mess with LED blink sequences or tethering it to USB Serial Monitor to rely on feedback.
That alone will make me stand in line for at least two more when/if rodot announces pre-orders and they're not significantly more expensive than what the perk was on indiegogo.

Quoting myself from may 2014:

jonnection wrote:Hello all
I've been hanging around here for a couple of weeks. I really like the Gamebuino, I think Rodot & Myndale and whoever else have done fantastic work. The Gamebuino has more going for it than any other Arduino-based gaming system I've seen. Its early days and looking pretty good.

... and yet ...

I do not (at least yet) see why it would avoid the trajectory of other similar projects (high initial excitement, lack of follow-up software, decline). The Hackvision (arduino+tvout) is a couple of years old, had some pretty decent games made for it and is already as dead as a dodo.

And here we are. I guess it was a good run, almost 2 years.

Thanks rodot, it was an inspiring time.

Nowadays all the kids are rambling about the Arduboy, even though its nowhere near as good as the 2014's Gamebuino of our youth.

Get off my lawn you kiddos are yer Arduboys!

What I'm disappointed by is there is no way for new users to buy a Gamebuino at the moment. I've been monitoring this site almost daily for weeks and have yet come across one I can buy. :(

In order for Gamebuino to survive, Rodot or someone else for that matter needs to manufacture new Gamebuinos to inject new life & enthusiasm into the project. Otherwise I fear that our beloved hobby will continue to die a slow and painfully death.... :(

Nowadays all the kids are rambling about the Arduboy, even though its nowhere near as good as the 2014's Gamebuino of our youth.

Get off my lawn you kiddos are yer Arduboys!

I know right? It costs the same, but has so much less capabilities. No SD card, no SPI breakouts, an even more uncomfortable layout; the only thing going for it is the online multiplayer in development, and the high durability. I'm just glad I got my Gamebuino before they became unavailable. Usually I wait until it's too late.

All the multiplayer stuff from the Arduboy can be ported to the Gamebuino.

Rodot is very busy working in real life, its understandable that the Gamebuino is not the center of his interest anymore, but he should pop in here once in a while. I just hope he's silent because is busy working some something amazing that's Gamebuino related. I still want him to work with Kevin to bring the Arduboy manufacturing process to the Gamebuino. ;)

Obviously I agree with tuberious, for now I thought I read that rodot was busy with graduation.
However the fear that there will be no more products is strong, especially since there is no update about it.

I still want him to work with Kevin to bring the Arduboy manufacturing process to the Gamebuino. ;)

I personally think if the Gamebuino was any thinner, it would get uncomfortable (more) quickly. Also, it's good news to hear the multiplayer thing is portable. I can see high scores for games being available to all other players, for one simple implementation.

Yes indeed Jonnection
This is exactly what I was thinking about one day
I am with the project since the start
The project is....dead
It is sad R0d0t lost interest for further development
So much more could be made, this had and still has a great potential
Someone should make a Gamebuino2
more memory
and a better screen
2.4 inch monochromatic OLED+ATmega2560
or something
I don't know
Maybe people sohuld gather and do something like that
Personaly I have insufficient time

and I suppose this is a great moment for showing my latest Gamebuino clone (sarcastic)
Actually it is quite old
But still
https://goo.gl/photos/Y25Q8H8GkmBs9SGN7
https://goo.gl/photos/Y25Q8H8GkmBs9SGN7
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6Gh- ... jR3dmpfZ1U

lol
I will bring it to Maker faire Vienna in April
Anyone coming?
Maybe I can get you a free ticket
Maybe not
unpredictable
XD

jonnection wrote:Quoting myself from may 2014:

jonnection wrote:Hello all
I've been hanging around here for a couple of weeks. I really like the Gamebuino, I think Rodot & Myndale and whoever else have done fantastic work. The Gamebuino has more going for it than any other Arduino-based gaming system I've seen. Its early days and looking pretty good.

... and yet ...

I do not (at least yet) see why it would avoid the trajectory of other similar projects (high initial excitement, lack of follow-up software, decline). The Hackvision (arduino+tvout) is a couple of years old, had some pretty decent games made for it and is already as dead as a dodo.

And here we are. I guess it was a good run, almost 2 years.

Thanks rodot, it was an inspiring time.

Fine clone :) a little less portable but looks well built :P

I am with the project since the start
The project is....dead
It is sad R0d0t lost interest for further development
So much more could be made, this had and still has a great potential

Well this is where the hardware forum thread becomes a channel for Fakebuino tutorials. It is a shame though, I really thought this would grow into a rather big company rather than become lost in obscurity. Hardly anyone has heard about Gamebuino still, and it's being eclipsed by Arduboy at this point.

On facebook the last update is this:

Code: Select all

Gamebuino
26 febbraio alle ore 2:37 ·
The wait will soon be over...


The end is near! :lol:

I would like to sincerely thank you all who participated in the Gamebuino adventure. Really. I know it sounds like I'm about to say "We had a good time, now it's over", but I won't. On the contrary. During the last few months I've been pretty, pretty busy. I was working full time and graduating a few degrees. Now I switched to a part time job. I graduated all my degrees. I'm ordering a new batch of Gamebuinos. Next month I'll move from my own room to a proper office. In a word, it's back on.

PS: Am I working on a Gamebuino 2 ? Not really. Maybe. It's classified.

Good news :)

I'd really love to see a Gamebuino 2, but with a hardware a little less restricting (like many people thinks), like an OLED screen (with a resolution just a little higher, like 96*64, and either black & white or native grayscale support). More RAM is really necessary too, currently I can't start big projects because I know that all I'll have to program just won't fit.

I think that you really should ask what people wants/needs in order to design the new Gamebuino ;)

Great to hear from you! Welcome back and congrats on the degrees.

PS. Dreaming of a 4 to 16 colors screen with the Arduboy manufacturing process, same form factor as the Gamebuino 1.

If more RAM is required, then ATMEGA2560 can have external RAM connected so that can serve as a framebuffer and extended heap! One guy made some code for 512kB SRAM multiheap access. The hardware he used is a latch register and a RAM chip http://andybrown.me.uk/2011/08/28/512kb ... ga-design/ To see this in the next Gamebuino would be awesome!

What I would like it to also have is the VS1053 chip to produce MIDI/MP3/WAV/WMA/OGG sound. That mixed with the AVR's multiple PWM pins will make some awesome chiptune music or chiptune sound effects while music plays in the background or some character voices.

I think a Gamebuino 2 should be a step up in both hardware and complexity. People can start getting code experience with the original model, then use what they learned to gain new heights in game complexity. (messing with more colors, bigger longer games, maybe even a basic fps possible)

I've heard of a FTDI graphics accellerator which might be a great idea for the Gamebuino 2. Imagine hardware-accellerated graphics!
What a coincidence, but GameDuino (not Gamebuino) uses that same chip! It uses FPGA, yes, but it uses the FTDI graphics chip too. So that might lead to higher resolutions and high colors.

http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documen ... _FT800.pdf here's the datasheet.

rodot wrote:I would like to sincerely thank you all...[/size]

Thank you rodot for coming to give us your news, I believe that this is an very important thing!
When gamebuino will be back in stock, I'll buy one.

For gamebuino 2 I think that is most important to overcome the memory limitations!

Will you use an Arduino 101 as advised here : viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3369 ?

superfreaky wrote:I think a Gamebuino 2 should be a step up in both hardware and complexity. People can start getting code experience with the original model, then use what they learned to gain new heights in game complexity.

That's my thoughts too, and that's why I'm alright to pay the Gamebuino 2 at least twice the price of the original.

deeph wrote:I think that you really should ask what people wants/needs in order to design the new Gamebuino ;)

I sure want to make Gamebuino better, but never said there would be a new Gamebuino. Or wouldn't ;)
Anyway, be sure I read and consider all your ideas, that's why I already made a poll that I planned to release on Facebook... but I see that you all have many good ideas to share so here's the poll in advance (if you have suggestions about the poll itself there's a free field at the end). Please, just don't spread it on the internet yet.
Again, sorry for the long absence and thank you all for your great enthusiasm :)

Finally gamebuino is back in stock! \o/
As soon as I have some time I try to make order
@rodot: This is the same latest version or there are already changes?

If you do end up making a new gamebuino backwards compability would rock ^.^

Drakker wrote:Nowadays all the kids are rambling about the Arduboy, even though its nowhere near as good as the 2014's Gamebuino of our youth.

Get off my lawn you kiddos are yer Arduboys!

Got my Arduboy yesterday.

Honestly, while I enjoyed my gamebuino the 2.5 months it managed to stay alive (with excruciating pain... always had to press the screen in 1 or 2 corners to see anything, changed the screen to no avail, cracked the transparent case because of pressing) the Arduboy does not play in the same category.

Cons: it has no SD-Card support and no SPI breakouts.

Pros: it's solid, it's gorgeous, it's stable, it works (!) ok, it worked flawlessly the last 24 hours, time will tell

But the workmanship, oh, the workmanship :o did I say the device is gorgeous?

To sum-up: HUGE feeling of solidity and durability, unlike the gamebuino I felt would crumble in my hands at any moment.

Sorry, not a troll post, this is just to give real feedback to Drakker from a guy who had the 2 devices in hand.

Nicolas